Discussion: equipment filling and frequency

[-Kirby-]

As far as I know, filling is an aspect that hasn't changed much since the early days. I also can't say it was an oft-discussed topic in Battlefield, but back then community-wide discussion wasn't as much of an impetus for change as it has shown to be today (for obvious reasons)

TankPit features an "equipment framework" that we're all very familiar with: any given box will net somewhere between 5 and 9 armors/duals/missiles/homings, or 2-4 extra radars. The other numbers that matter in this discussion are the abundance of equipment on the field, the equipment capacities of the tanks, and the frequency of finding extra radars. The equipment framework used in TankPit, from what I can tell, is very consistent with that of Battlefield.

In Battlefield the variation was very slight. If I'm right and from what I can recall, these are the only detectable differences:
- On very rare occasions players would receive 10 dual shots or 5 extra radars from one equipment
- Promotion equipment may have been able to send you from corporal to sergeant (this may be true for TankPit, but if so I have yet to see it)


The reason I wanted to bring this to the table today is because in relatively recent times I have been noticing a range of grumblings of discontent at how hard it is to refill and/or maintain fullness in general. Statements from "I'm low on extra radars again" to "I don't want to spend half my time filling in this game," may offer a valid reflection that negative feelings about filling are common in the player-base.

Expressions such as these are suggestive of the frequently publicized (and arguably unfortunate) reality that we live in a world that "calls for instant gratification." During the DTT era the act of filling itself was a faster process, even if the increased speeds meant it had to be done more often. Perhaps TankPit, which for the most part still uses the same equipment framework developed in Battlefield, should make some changes.

In my opinion the current framework is respectable; I don't feel as though any emotions (perhaps one would assume impatience) are causing me to bring this up today. However improvement is always possible, and constitutes the spirit in which I would like to enjoy discussing various proposals to make filling a more pleasurable and/or less strenuous aspect of the game. If it's really a turn-off, it should be addressed; activity is everything.


This topic, I believe, is more complex than it appears. First of all, it needs to be remembered that any changes would inevitably undermine the perceived value of the current number rankings. Secondly, there are some numbers that the community isn't privy to, such as the fabled "wetness coefficient" that would determine how many equipments are spawning based on map activity, and the number determining the proportion of equipments that are radars.

Third, some measures that one would be quick to identify as "improvements" might actually be deceiving. A mere increase in the equipment capacity of each rank, for example: saying, "if tanks were able to carry more equipment, then they wouldn't have to fill as often" may sound like a good idea, but ignores the fact that there is a positive relationship between equipment capacity and time spent filling. A tank that can hold 120 of everything is going to take much more time to fill, and that matters in this discussion.


As I finish this post, I feel inclined to propose that changes to the following numbers might help quell some of the attitudes expressed towards this less-enjoyable aspect of the game:
- A slight increase in the number of equipment likely to be gained in each box (9-8-7 boxes become slightly/even more common than 6 and 5 boxes, for example)
- A slight increase in the propensity to detect equipment (the "wetness coefficient," assuming the game even works that way)
- A slight increase in the propensity for gotten equipment to be extra radars

A combination of small adjustments such as this, I believe, has the potential to really change filling while being widely unnoticeable - and while the salience of any changes isn't necessarily something that matters, when one considers our perceived value of the top 25... what we don't know may not hurt us ;)

Thoughts/Ideas/Proposals/Criticisms/Etcetera is encouraged!

[goober]

As a general I never have a problem filling especially my ERs. If I'm 1v1 or 2v1 as a gen you can get away with a regular radar because you have a ton of fuel to spare if you are really concerned. I am just more curious about filling in tournaments. Here is my theory:


Equipment gets refilled on a map every 3-7 minutes during a tournament which is proportionate to the amount of players taking into account different ranks and such like that. I think there is also a placement preference which is new, such as less equipment is randomly being placed in water during tournaments and even some maps. This makes not having a ferry and being on land more fair. In terms of getting what types of equipment I think that there is a higher probability to get Armours>Duals>Missiles>Homers>ERs. But it is probably more closers to Armours=Duals=Missiles~>Homers>>ERs at least in tournaments. This is the random chance. I also think the number of type of equipment is random depending on the time that elapsed since your last equipment you found. For example if you find a screen full of eq, you will be at a disadvantage getting lower numbers of an eq like 5 or 6 because not much time has passed between each box. I find myself getting 2 ERs consecutively more often when they are back to back to back. But this isn't to say if you wait X amount of time in between boxes you will get a higher number of that item. I think it resets itself which makes it more random. This is my interpretation of equipment, and it may be completely wrong but if its is close to being right, it doesn't impact my ability to fill at all really. It is mostly random chance.

[tournamentJESUS]

nobody will ever be able to decipher not only the randomness of the distribution of equipment throughout the map, but also the randomness of the ammunition that one receives when filling.

all of this is a good thing.

i've heard almost every wild tale about "how equipment re-spawns" -- and i've even had some theories of my own -- but all of them are completely erroneous in my opinion. there are no consistent patterns of any kind as far as regeneration of eq goes and if there was some type of evident regularity with which the equipment re-spawned, then i'm sure someone would have caught on to this already.

have a nice day.

[tournamentJESUS]

Equipment gets refilled on a map every 3-7 minutes during a tournament which is proportionate to the amount of players taking into account different ranks and such like that. I think there is also a placement preference which is new, such as less equipment is randomly being placed in water during tournaments and even some maps. This makes not having a ferry and being on land more fair. In terms of getting what types of equipment I think that there is a higher probability to get Armours>Duals>Missiles>Homers>ERs. But it is probably more closers to Armours=Duals=Missiles~>Homers>>ERs at least in tournaments. This is the random chance. I also think the number of type of equipment is random depending on the time that elapsed since your last equipment you found. For example if you find a screen full of eq, you will be at a disadvantage getting lower numbers of an eq like 5 or 6 because not much time has passed between each box. I find myself getting 2 ERs consecutively more often when they are back to back to back. But this isn't to say if you wait X amount of time in between boxes you will get a higher number of that item. I think it resets itself which makes it more random. This is my interpretation of equipment, and it may be completely wrong but if its is close to being right, it doesn't impact my ability to fill at all really. It is mostly random chance.

another example of a wild tale that sounds like its nothing more than a comic exaggeration mixed with wishful thinking and a lack of experience/rationale.

[goober]

Equipment gets refilled on a map every 3-7 minutes during a tournament which is proportionate to the amount of players taking into account different ranks and such like that. I think there is also a placement preference which is new, such as less equipment is randomly being placed in water during tournaments and even some maps. This makes not having a ferry and being on land more fair. In terms of getting what types of equipment I think that there is a higher probability to get Armours>Duals>Missiles>Homers>ERs. But it is probably more closers to Armours=Duals=Missiles~>Homers>>ERs at least in tournaments. This is the random chance. I also think the number of type of equipment is random depending on the time that elapsed since your last equipment you found. For example if you find a screen full of eq, you will be at a disadvantage getting lower numbers of an eq like 5 or 6 because not much time has passed between each box. I find myself getting 2 ERs consecutively more often when they are back to back to back. But this isn't to say if you wait X amount of time in between boxes you will get a higher number of that item. I think it resets itself which makes it more random. This is my interpretation of equipment, and it may be completely wrong but if its is close to being right, it doesn't impact my ability to fill at all really. It is mostly random chance.

another example of a wild tale that sounds like its nothing more than a comic exaggeration mixed with wishful thinking and a lack of experience/rationale.

^^^^

[Warrior]

I like where this is going, My only problem with filling equipment is.... when the map has had alot of activity and a few hrs pass everything seems to get really dry. I think refreshing equipment/fuel/map more often wouldn't hurt. Even desert which seems like it used to have more fuel than it does now gets pretty dry. Maybe a 30 min RNG for the high traffic hrs?

Solid ideas kirby i think the best one is making (ER/more 7-8-9 eq boxes) more frequent

[WEENIE BOY]

Thoughts/Ideas/Proposals/Criticisms/Etcetera is encouraged!

Outstanding observation Kirby!

Here's my take on filling/frequency, which is only applicable to Tourneys............the regular maps are fine the way it is because there's no pressing urgency or dire need to fill ASAP. Tourneys only:

#1 This is a speed contest to find equip and spew as many duals as possible
#2 Once you achieve the rank of Lt, you MUST kill a Sgt or higher

And that's it! 2 Objectives to a Tournament!
-- some minor details regarding equip mgt, mobs, & fuel come in to play; however, it DOES NOT over shadow #1 or #2.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now, to tie-in your equip filling/frequency observation:

If you do not fill in under 10-12 mins.........kiss it good-bye and just log out.............save the 50 mins to do something better in your life! I know, this sounds harsh and a bit of a "quitter" mentality, but in the loooooong run, it'll save time and let the PRO's bang it out for the Cup. Every now and then, you might sneak in with a 15 min fill, but from what I see...........it's the same ol players every Tourney and they are TOUGH to beat (not factoring in cheats/fk's).

Why not start everyone off with 5 of everything? Or 10? Or 25? Or, everyone starts off with 5 of everything and if you already have a Cup, you get to start off with 10 of everything. This makes the game-play more fun and exciting from the opening bell. Right now, if you have a bad fill (like I normally do) of say-----22 mins.........the odds are increasingly high that you WILL NOT Cup. The mentality of most players is to claim a secondary trophy called -------> TOP PPH or #3 PPH. Who cares if you had top pph?!?!?!?! The BOTTOM LINE is we all came here to compete for and there's only 3 winners. Consolation of PPH means nutt'n/nada/zilch.

Taken into account my 17 tourneys (my best ranking is 4th), I can't tell you how many times I had 60/60/60/60/0 or 92/92/92/92/0. Aaahh......I'm gonna stop now cause it prolly seems like I'm whining and I can just see the flaming responses from the jokers in this forum.

My inspiration to continue playing Tourney's comes from one of your vidz where you snuck in a kill at the 59 min mark to Cup. So I know it's possible, I just gotta put myself in contention..........which is HARD to do without equip. Everybody starts with zero equip......why not start everyone with a few equip to get them going?

WEENIE BOY
P.S. I apologize to anyone if I have offended this game...........I know some of you have been playing this since I was in diapers.

[wardizzle]

There is a window of time for equipment respawns in tournaments. I can actually pinpoint exactly when the first and second spawns occur and will sometimes backtrack through screens I've been through to pick up the fresh equipment. I would love to agree that this is pure coincidence but over 2 dozen tournaments is too many for pure chance.

Desert, last I played, did in fact seem to get really dry. The fuel spawning pattern resembled uTanks more than TP earlier. Truth be told, I think this has something to do with the higher fuel cans (1900+) which seem to pop up ~30-40% of the time rather than the old average of ~600-900. I actually think more smaller cans keep the maps more even than more fuel PER can.

[iwasperdition]

I like where this is going, My only problem with filling equipment is.... when the map has had alot of activity and a few hrs pass everything seems to get really dry. I think refreshing equipment/fuel/map more often wouldn't hurt. Even desert which seems like it used to have more fuel than it does now gets pretty dry. Maybe a 30 min RNG for the high traffic hrs?

Solid ideas kirby i think the best one is making (ER/more 7-8-9 eq boxes) more frequent

Eq should be plentiful imo, and er's should be one of the earlier things to fill to make up for people that would complain about RAID TAKING IS EASIER NOW LOOk ALL KINDS OF EQ. More eq = less fill times = less boring not fighting time = more fighting = more activity = winners all around!!!!!!11111!

[-Kirby-]

Yeah this post was really not meant to include tournaments whatsoever, I'm kicking myself now for forgetting to specify that but essentially the proposed reality in this discussion, since I seem to have not made it clear enough, is that there is a number of people that believe filling/refilling in the main map takes too long or has to be done too frequently, and that filling should perhaps be a more diminished aspect of the game... again, in the main map.