A "feature of maze"

by mz » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:32 pm

Perhaps many of you have already noticed this. If not I just want to point this out. When you click to move, sometimes the move takes you through a winded path that takes 3-4 seconds. This is especially true in crazy maze. If somebody teleports to you right after you click that person would see you tank already at the destination and can start shooting you. During this time you will still see yourself in the process of moving. Then when you finally get to the destination, you see 3-4 shots land in a row without you being able to do anything. You think this should be changed so that everyone sees the same thing at the same time so there's no inconsistency? I think the issue is with the way the game is coded. I may be wrong but it seems like the server does the following:

1. Receive move destination from user 1.
(On the user end, graphics execute the move taking 3-4 seconds)
2. Update location of user 1.
3. Receive firing command from user 2.

I think there needs to be a verification step

1. Receive move destination from user 1.
(On the user end, graphics execute the move taking 3-4 seconds)
2. Verify user 1 has arrived at destination from user computer.
3. Update location of user 1.
4. Receive firing command from user 2.

I mean, if user 1 has to wait for the move, shouldn't user 2 who's going in for the kill have to wait for the move to finish as well?

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:10 pm

maze players learn to instead of driving around a maze, they simply teleport to where they need to go to prevent this very thing if the equipment or fuel seems like a long drive. enough practice and youll be able to click where an equipment is on the map easily without needing a dot on the map, which is a valuable skill in clicking on sub 500 fuels in clutch situations as well.

this improves and enhances the ability of precision teleporting. which is key in taking raids effectively. most maze veterans are incredibly skilled and efficient at precision teleporting and angle shooting. which when other maps come up that don't feature the need for these skills often, maze players have a slight advantage in these situations if they arise.

by **Jordann** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:14 pm

if theres a part of the game thats broken or inconsistent, it cant be changed because someone has already learned to use those inconsistencies to their advantage and it is now deemed a 'skill'

on topic tho, i agree this is annoying. sometimes if i know someone is going to make a long move ill just open and close map real quick and get a double/triple. doesnt happen often but its basically abusing the same 'glitch' youre talking about.

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:18 pm

mz wrote:Perhaps many of you have already noticed this. If not I just want to point this out. When you click to move, sometimes the move takes you through a winded path that takes 3-4 seconds. This is especially true in crazy maze. If somebody teleports to you right after you click that person would see you tank already at the destination and can start shooting you. During this time you will still see yourself in the process of moving. Then when you finally get to the destination, you see 3-4 shots land in a row without you being able to do anything.

i was deactivated because of this 2 nights ago. my move took me around a large mountain and by the time i got to the fuel i was going for, the entire raid was already there and all of their shots connected in hyper speed when i stopped and killed me without giving me a chance to turn on shields. it was the first raid i had taken in over 3 months and i immediately thought to myself, "fuck this, i'm not playing until this bullshit is fixed."

:hmmm:

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:38 pm

wow picta, you suck

by SW » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:59 pm

This is kind of part of the game lol. Knowing when to drive vs teleport is TankPit 101.

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:09 pm

SW wrote:This is kind of part of the game lol. Knowing when to drive vs teleport is TankPit 101.

it was never like this and has nothing to do with timing or knowing when to drive/tele

its a glitch that doesn't update shit that goes on in real time for the person taking the raid. but those raiding see that the tank has already reached its destination and are already pounding it with dual shots. fix it broseph.

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:46 pm

tournamentJESUS wrote:its a glitch that doesn't update shit that goes on in real time for the person taking the raid.

>GLITCH
>REAL TIME

good thing the game IS NOT "real time" and is actually "turn based" style system or this might actually be a problem.

if you really can't see when it's a bad idea to long move after playing this long (let me give you a hint: IT'S ALWAYS A BAD IDEA FUCKFENCE) then you're a baddie and should probably quit playing

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:53 pm

you're too much of an imbecile with a brain no bigger than a toothpick to understand what is going on here.

shermanfrombf wrote:
if you really can't see when it's a bad idea to long move after playing this long (let me give you a hint: IT'S ALWAYS A BAD IDEA FUCKFENCE) then you're a baddie and should probably quit playing

so because a move is slightly lengthier than others, my tank should appear on the raiders' screen and allow them to pound me even though on my screen it appears as if i'm still moving?

:tehfunny:

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:54 pm

im not the one that takes a 30 second drive around a maze knowing full well the possible consequences of it in a turn-based game.

you apparently are.

by **zubby** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:55 pm

this has been around forever..? even in bf...

by **PRIDE** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:56 pm

have to side with sherman here. its obvious that long moves lag you

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:57 pm

tournamentJESUS wrote:so because a move is slightly lengthier than others, my tank should appear on the raiders' screen and allow them to pound me even though on my screen it appears as if i'm still moving?

yes actually, you do deserve it, and I hope you learn from that mistake when it kills you.

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:00 pm

shermanfrombf wrote:im not the one that takes a 30 second drive around a maze knowing full well the possible consequences of it in a turn-based game.

you apparently are.

it wasn't a maze. the situation i'm talking about occurred in tron and there was a strip of mountains between me and the fuel i was going for forcing me to drive down and then up. as i was driving, those raiding me had already landed on that fuel (although it didn't update for me) and started shooting at me because my tank had updated for them. so, when i finally reached my destination, everything finally updates for me and there were suddenly 6 tanks that have already shot me 10 times (all these shots connected in hyper speed and killed me)

:tehfunny:

where is the logic in this?

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:03 pm

the logic is it's a turn based game and not real time. and you took a 10 second drive knowing full well you're the target in a raid.

you deserved to get SLAMMED

like seriously, how new are you? you sound pretty new.

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:03 pm

zubby wrote:this has been around forever..? even in bf...

not the shooting part. the landing yes, but they weren't allowed to pound you with 12 shots until everything updated for you as well. because otherwise they're getting 2 moves in there to your one -- the landing, and then the shooting before your long move finishes.

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:05 pm

tournamentJESUS wrote:
zubby wrote:this has been around forever..? even in bf...

not the shooting part. the landing yes, but they weren't allowed to pound you with 12 shots until everything updated for you as well. because otherwise they're getting 2 moves in there to your one -- the landing, and then the shooting before your long move finishes.

my god m8 you're so new, we used to do this shit to noobs in crazy maze all the time. catch them driving in a maze and rapid fire off like 6 rounds while on their screen they're still driving on their screen. NEW

>trying to argue this with crazy maze players
>being this new
>my text isn't green

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:09 pm

why the fuck are the raiders supposed to have an advantage in the "screen update" department? why is my tank updated on their screen while i'm moving and i don't get the same courtesy? the way it appears on my screen is that they basically cut through my move and get 2-3 moves in while i'm still driving.

:lol:

shitty game is shitty. have a nice day.

by **shermanfrombf** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:16 pm

don't blame the game, blame the player.

by **tournamentJESUS** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:53 pm

by mz » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:00 pm

It's good that we all agree this feature exists. The question I want to raise is "should this be part of the game and should it be changed?" The argument for those who vote "no" can be essentially summarized as "it has always been a part of the game so it should continue to be so." From a historical perspective, I can think of a couple of examples off the top of my head where this argument didn't hold up.

1. For the longest time in bonus.com battlefield, equipment could be booby traps. If you get one of those you lose half your equipment. That was removed when suggested by player Corey Kelly PA.
2. There was also a time when promotion points were revealed to players. Then someone thought it was a bad idea and it wasn't anymore.
3. We also never banned players in tournaments because free kill was part of the game. I got banned last week for doing so and has promised since to never give free kills again.

Now precedence for changing features of the game aside, I'd like to discuss this feature in question from a gameplay perspective. Is this a bug or a desired feature? This feature does not increase complexity of the game. For those who know about it, we simply don't make long moves (also this is not specific to maze as many of you pointed out). For those who don't know about it, we discover it through an unpleasant surprise. I myself suspected this earlier when I used to play in Apps but only recently confirmed it by experimentation in maze because it's easy. Anyone new to this game would naturally expect all players to be seeing the same information (i.e. if I see myself moving then the other player must be seeing me move as well). In short features that lead to complex strategies should be kept and those leading to unnecessary mechanical moves should be avoided.

I do want to present the strongest argument for keeping the feature. It may be difficult to modify the code to the way I and others have envisioned on this board. It is difficult as it is for the admin to bring this game back into full working condition along with the improvements. I think we all own them props for that. And this change may just take more time than it's worth. But in the end I just want to raise this as an issue because I thought this would be helpful for the community. After all, why do we have the lightbulb and dot awards for? Don't we want to encourage involvement?

Lastly food for thought: with this feature, I can think of a strategy to kill someone on the field. Have a mob in google hangout or some real time meeting program. Player x jumps in to dual with player y. When player y gets low, x takes the longest move and tells the mob via hangout to teleport in. Player y has to watch x move on his screen, and the mob gets multiple free shots off before y can turn on shields. I haven't tried this but would be interested to see if this works.

by **003** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:08 pm

Solid read, guys.

by SW » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:43 pm

I don't see how this change would improve the game. As far as I'm concerned animation lag is part of the game that should never be removed.

I think the only way this would ever be changed is if TP was turned into a non-turn-based game.

by **TM3** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:02 am

I can't actually believe this thread is happening. Don't people remember the maze trick where you "click to center of the maze, quit out, come back in and pummel the dude who's still sitting there watch you move" trick. This was the utmost common knowledge of battlefield and was a cornerstone to dying down by killing yourself and spamming messages by long moving. This has now been fixed and it just saying insufficient fuel to even send a message but you used to suicide instead. In utanks this was the reason kevin and utanks staff increased speed of tanks for long moves over so many spaces. :tumbleweed:

SW wrote:I don't see how this change would improve the game. As far as I'm concerned animation lag is part of the game that should never be removed.

I think the only way this would ever be changed is if TP was turned into a non-turn-based game.

Using the game against itself is the epitimay of a turn-based game. Learning all the little quirks to optimize your movements is really how you learn to survive in so many situations like scoping during a raid so only 2-3 tanks are on your screen instead of 10 etc.

by **Krusty** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:17 am

There's nothing wrong with how it is now. Just teleport instead of driving, it may take more moves but its quicker.

picta got no skills, he raid dodged for 3 months then get slammed haha.

If anything was to be done, is it not possible to make the tank "uncontrollable" to everybody until the move stops? I mean as soon as the tank stops everybody who has landed will register a shot on them but no "extra" shots will happen while the tank is still in motion. <- Not sure if possible SW but its no big deal, its fine the way it is, just a suggestion tho.